#300 – Writing Lessons from Shrinking Season 2: Character Growth, Accountability, and Full Circle Storytelling
Welcome to the Spun Today Podcast, where creativity, storytelling, and personal growth are always at the forefront. In this milestone 300th episode, Tony Ortiz dives deep into the writing, character arcs, and creative lessons of Shrinking Season 2. Through the lens of writing, Tony explores how the show masterfully brings trauma and accountability front and center—not just for the characters, but for creators looking to fuel their own work. This episode is packed with insightful breakdowns on making emotional concepts concrete, the importance of maintaining a consistent voice, and how true character change begins with accountability. Whether you’re a fellow writer, a fan of great storytelling, or simply looking for creative motivation, join Tony as he celebrates growth—imperfect but intentional—and uncovers the powerful writing techniques behind Shrinking’s emotionally resonant second season.
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Shrinking: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15677150/?ref_=ttfc_ov_bk
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Stutz Documentary: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21819228/
https://www.thetoolsbook.com/reversal-of-desire
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Transcript
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Transcript 〰️
Tony Ortiz [00:00:00]:
And season two of Shrinking isn't about fixing everything. It's about facing what you've avoided, owning your role in the damage and choosing to do better anyway. Not perfectly, but intentionally. And as writers, that's the main lesson. That's the main takeaway. Healing isn't clean. Growth isn't linear. But accountability is where real character change begins.
Tony Ortiz [00:00:44]:
What's up folks? What's going on? Welcome to the Spun Today Podcast, the only podcast that is anchored in writing but unlimited in scope. I'm your host Tony Ortiz and I appreciate you listening. This is episode 300 of the Sponsored A podcast. Can't believe those words just came out of my mouth. 300 episodes in it's definitely been an interesting ride over the years. Educational for me for sure. Just in terms of getting deeper into the craft of writing the ins and outs of podcasting, trying to get better at all. All of it.
Tony Ortiz [00:01:18]:
Trying to get better at interviews, learning more about writing and sharing what I've learned with you fine folks in hopefully an entertaining enough way for non writers to even want to listen. But yeah, I really appreciate each and every one of you that do take the time to listen for doing so. In this episode, I'm going to continue on with a deep dive into the show. Shrinking this episode, I'm going to focus on season two. If you missed the season one breakdown, feel free to go back and listen to that in episode 299 of the podcast. And as always, please rate and subscribe. Wherever it is that you listen to the show, it definitely helps to get it out to more people. If you visit spuntery.com it is the best one stop shop for everything Spun today, including a bunch of free writing that I have there that's free for anybody to check out and read short stories that are free for everyone to read.
Tony Ortiz [00:02:12]:
My Books page which has links to each of my books in all the different places where you can get them in the format of your choice. The Support link where you'll find different things like merch and affiliate links that definitely help support the show. And my latest Shop tab that'll take you to my fourth wall page where you can see all the new and improved designs for T shirts, hoodies, tank tops. Now that the weather's getting warmer, some stuns out guns out the official Spun Today coffee mug in a myriad of different color schemes and of course the Spun Today official notebook. Check that out all@spun today.com and click on Shop. Here's another way that you can help support the Spun Today podcast. If you so choose and then we'll jump right into the episode.
Speaker B [00:03:08]:
Another great way for you to help support the show and also take care of your foundational health is by going to spunta.com forward/support and clicking on my affiliate link for Athletic Greens, aka AG1. One scoop of AG1 in your water helps to fill nutrient gaps, promote gut health, and support whole body vitality. Just one serving delivers a comprehensive blend of nine products a multivitamin, minerals, prebiotics, probiotics, adaptogens and more, all of which work together for the strongest foundation for better health. I personally take AG1 and really appreciate the peace of mind of knowing that foundational health bases are covered even when I know I'm not eating as healthily
Tony Ortiz [00:03:52]:
as I should be.
Speaker B [00:03:53]:
Also, by using my affiliate link@ spons.com support you will get one free year of vitamin D3 as well as five AG1 travel packs absolutely for free. Again, go to sponte.com support and click on the banner for AG1.
Tony Ortiz [00:04:13]:
If you haven't listened to my breakdown of season one of shrinking and like going in order, please go back and listen to it. There's this moment in Shrinking Season 2 that kind of reframes the entire show. The guy who killed Jimmy's wife shows up, and this time it's not in a flashback. It's not as a memory. It's not as some abstract idea of grief. He shows up in real life at Jimmy's office and Jimmy, who's played by Jason Siegel, which is also a co creator and writer of the show, instantly throws him out. And for a second as the viewer, you're like, yeah, of course he throws him out. You connect with that emotional knee jerk reaction.
Tony Ortiz [00:04:57]:
But then the show does something way more uncomfortable than just letting that moment be justified. It asks us as the viewer, what do you do when the worst thing that's ever happened to you has a face? Because now it's not just grief anymore. It's anger. It's guilt. Now it's accountability. Not just for what was done to you, but for how you responded to it after. And that's really what Season two is all about. Not just about the healing, but also about taking responsibility for the damage that you caused while you were still hurting.
Tony Ortiz [00:05:36]:
And as we like to do here on the Spun Today podcast, because if we don't, who will? I want to give a special shout out to each and every one of the writers that put this series together. Shrinking was created and written by Brett Goldstein, Bill Lawrence and Jason Segel. Additional writing Credits to Sophie Selig, Sasha Guerin, Zach Bornstein, Neil Goldman, Rachna Frutchbomb, Brian Galavin, Bill Posley, Annie Mabain, Ashley Nicole Black, CJ Hoke, Wally Barum, Kyra Brown, and Emily R. Wilson. Shout out to each and every one of those writers. Amazing job on this show. And now let's dive a little bit deeper and let's speak more about when the past shows up at your doorstep. Brett Goldstein, which again is co creator and writer of the show and also plays Louis on the show, the drunk driver character that killed Jimmy's wife and Alice's mom, which, by the way, you may remember as Roy in the Ted Lasso series.
Tony Ortiz [00:06:47]:
So he shows up at Jimmy's office, and that's such a bold narrative choice to essentially personify the trauma of that incident, to bring it physically into Jimmy's world. And a great immediate writing takeaway for us is that we don't necessarily have to keep trauma abstract. Give it a face, a voice, a presence. When the antagonist is humanized, the story becomes exponentially more complex. And I want to juxtapose that with how the show still makes sure that humor carries the weight of it, even with how heavy this season in particular gets. The humor is still firing at all cylinders. I think I mentioned in the first breakdown how it felt like actual comics were, like, punching up each episode's script because there's like a ton of funny moments throughout. And like the banter between the characters is so, so quick and witty.
Tony Ortiz [00:07:46]:
Brian, played by Michael Urie, says something along the lines of. Or not along the lines of. He literally says, Orange is the new snack, a play on the show, Orange is a new Black. But I forget what it was exactly in reference to if it was somebody like in an orange outfit or painting the baby's room or something like that. But it was super funny. Gabby, played by Jessica Williams, says to Paul, which is hilarious. Just one of my favorite lines of the show. I have no idea why.
Tony Ortiz [00:08:16]:
It's like one of those things that just make you laugh every time you hear it. And Paul is like, passive aggressively offering her two potatoes that he got in a delivery of vegetables that he received at the office. And she looks at him and just says, what I'm gonna do with two potatoes. And that has become shorthand between, like, me and my wife at home for when something just doesn't quite add up or whenever we just want a random laugh or need one. And I appreciate that about the show, that it never abandons its comedic tone and a Takeaway for us creatively is that consistency of voice matters even as the stakes in your story are rising. Maintaining that humor creates a juxtaposition that can actually make the emotional moments hit harder. And that's in the case of this show being a comedy and having such a dark undertone and heaviness to its theme. But you can think about that in the opposite direction if you're something.
Tony Ortiz [00:09:19]:
If you're writing something more tragic or just not necessarily funny, like a time travel sci fi, for example, that plays within the realm of social commentary, shout out to Fractale. Great novel, if I do say so myself. Available@smart.com books. But if you're writing like a sci fi, for example, juxtaposing its heavier sides with comedy or levity will have that same effect of making the emotional moments hit harder. I think that's a good tool for us to have in season two. An important takeaway for me was that the flaws of each character don't disappear. They don't grow that way. Their flaws just evolve.
Tony Ortiz [00:10:02]:
Jimmy is still selfish. That hasn't magically gone away, but now the show is starting to interrogate it more. Why is he selfish? How? In what ways is he being selfish? What is it costing the people around him? The same with Sean, played by Luke Tenney, who is still struggling to confront things head on. He's like running away from his past and his issues. And even the characters like Liz, played by Krista Miller and Derek, played by Ted McGinley, they continue to be hilariously intrusive and constantly crossing boundaries. And a writing takeaway for us there is that character flaws shouldn't disappear in later seasons. They should deepen. Growth comes from engaging in the flaws, not just erasing them.
Tony Ortiz [00:10:55]:
We want to see the characters go deeper into their bullshit and figure things out, work things out, not just have them magically not exist anymore. That's not how humans work. I noticed this season that the actual act of therapy was pulled more to the forefront this season, and we see more therapy tools woven throughout the storylines. One, for example, is that Paul, played by Harrison Ford, gives Sean a tool, does this visualization exercise with him, and asks him to face his fears by imagining them as a dark cloud. And then picture yourself walking through that cloud and coming out the other side of it. And the idea there is that once you get to the other side of it, you can look back at the fear more objectively as something that you're passed that you actually got through already. And this reminded me of the book the Tools by Phil Stutz and Barry Michaels, which there's also a great Netflix documentary on that Jonah Hill put together about Phil and his approach, therapy, psychology. And it's a great doc, great book also.
Tony Ortiz [00:12:06]:
You guys should check both out and definitely check out the sponsor day breakdown of that documentary. I did it way back when. Actually, probably don't check that out. It was so long ago. It's probably not the best to listen to. It's not as exhilarating as this episode is, right? But here's an example of that tool from the toolsbook.com website, which I'll link to in the episode notes. So the tool in brief is one, face the pain, which means focus on the pain that you're avoiding. See it appear in front of you as a cloud, silently scream and bring it on to demand the pain and that you want it because it has great value.
Tony Ortiz [00:12:51]:
Step two would be move toward the pain. Scream silently to yourself. I love pain. As you keep moving forward, move so deeply into the pain that you're at one with it. And step three is feel the cloud spit you out and close behind you and say, inwardly, pain sets me free. As you leave the cloud, feel yourself propelled forward into a realm of pure light. So in the show, they implement that with the scene between Paul and Sean, and it's simple, it's visual, it's actionable, and it becomes a narrative device that we actually see Sean use. As the season goes on, we see him confront his past by visiting with his army buddy.
Tony Ortiz [00:13:39]:
He starts confronting his strained family life and relationship with his father, etc, which we'll get a bit more into a little bit later. But what I want to highlight from a writing perspective is that abstract ideas become powerful when they're made concrete. So whenever we can turn emotional concepts into visual or actionable tools that our characters can actually use, that's a really big win. And staying on the psychology theme, Gabby introduces Liz to a concept called psychological egoism, which is the idea that all actions are ultimately self serving. And it's not just a throwaway line. We see Liz sit with that for a moment and then watch her character as she starts reframing how she sees herself there or not. And creatively, I like when we see psychology or philosophy layered through our character's voices. When it's done naturally like that, it adds depth without coming off as preachy or like some sort of lecture.
Tony Ortiz [00:14:45]:
One of the arcs this season is Jimmy trying, like really actively trying to be a better friend to Brian, which is his best friend that he ghosted for A year after his wife was killed. And I went more deeply into why in the season one breakdown. But there's this really funny scene where Jimmy finds out what Brian's partner does for work after Brian had mentioned that he's never really taken an interest in his personal life. And the exchange between the two is perfect. It's like comedic gold. Jimmy tells him that he knows that his partner is a management consultant. And then Brian, without skipping a beat, says, he's a management consultant. And Jimmy's like, yeah.
Tony Ortiz [00:15:32]:
And Brian's like, how'd you know that? And Jimmy's like, I saw it on his website. And Brian immediately responds. He has a website and just his inflections. And how genuine. The genuine looking surprise that he had while asking those questions. And how ironic that he, like, seemingly didn't even know what his partner really did for work while reprimanding Jimmy for not knowing personal things about his own. His life was just like, laugh out loud funny. And that specificity makes their relationship feel real.
Tony Ortiz [00:16:06]:
Also of note is that Brian and Charlie, played by Devin Kawaoka, also get a major win this season in that they're chosen to adopt a baby. And a great writing takeaway that speaks to character development is that small, specific interactions build believable relationships. It's not necessarily just the big speeches. It's those little details that really help the characters come to life. Switching gears back to Sean, we see his breakthrough moment with his father, which is one of the most powerful arcs this season. He finally opens up to his dad. You know, he's implementing. We see him implementing the tool, the psychological tool that Paul gave him earlier in the season.
Tony Ortiz [00:16:55]:
And he tells his dad that when he came back from Afghanistan from the army, he was trying to cope with all these feelings he was having, which was essentially ptsd, and trying to process the trauma of shit that he saw out there. He went to his dad for help, and his dad, he felt, was being dismissive and saying things to him like, suck it up. And essentially giving him his way of coping with things, which is to tough it out. Don't talk about it. You'll get through it. And then from Sean's perspective, he tells him again, opening up to his father, that he felt kind of like betrayed and abandoned by that. And also the fact that his father wound up kicking him out of the house when he came back from the army under the guise of tough love so that Sean could get his life together. Because Sean was getting into, like, one bar fight after the other and getting arrested, having to get bailed out, so on and so forth.
Tony Ortiz [00:17:53]:
And his father's way to deal with that situation was to toughen him up, kick him out, make him pick himself up from his bootstraps, if you will. And after this emotional exchange, from the perspective of Shanta's father, like, the expectation, at least from my perspective, was that the father would break down and like, oh my God, you're right, I should have approached things differently, so on and so forth. But it wasn't that his dad pushes back and points out, he's like, I gave you a place to stay. I invested my life savings into buying this food truck so that we can live out this dream of yours after, by the way, I put in a full day of work at the office. And his point is that you don't necessarily have to give hugs to show love. I also gave you chance after all of your bar fights and run ins with the law. And I'm also raising another son that's looking up to you and seeing all this shit that you're fucking up with. And it was refreshing to see that pushback from the father because it wasn't like a cookie cutter scene how I expected it to be, because no one is fully right in that situation and that no one is fully wrong, which is way more realistic and reflective of real life.
Tony Ortiz [00:19:02]:
After that, we see that Sean winds up spiraling and picking a fight with a crew of construction workers and just literally lets himself get beaten to a pulp. He doesn't even fight back. It's like a some sort of self inflicted punishment. And as a writing takeaway for us there, we should note that the best conflicts have dual truths and it's okay to let both sides be valid or have validity. That's where that emotional realism that I picked up on, you know, an it feeling more realistic and not cookie cutter, that's with our emotional realism lives a quick note on the visual storytelling aspect of the show, which. Which is something that on most shows, not most shows, but on some shows, just like the opening montage credits and song for the show, some are like hit or miss, some are better than others. But in this show in particular, even the opening credits, that imagery of this is how I took it in. The imagery of carving out a new neural pathway through a labyrinth that's shaped like a brain just reinforces the themes of change and growth and realization that we see throughout the show.
Tony Ortiz [00:20:20]:
And it's an important note and realization for myself. That theme isn't just in dialogue. It can live in visuals, it can live in Structure. And in the show like this, even in opening sequences, and just from a creative perspective, when approaching our work, we should try to reinforce that message of our theme in different layered ways that we can. Now, let's speak a little bit about Alice, played by Lukita Maxwell, who has a really important arc this season. She winds up confronting the drunk driver that killed her mom at the coffee shop that she finds out that he works at. And he later shows up at her house after finding her wallet that she left behind. And he's kind of just like standing outside, not knowing really what to do, if he should go in, if he's leaving in the mailbox, like, that's the impression that we get.
Tony Ortiz [00:21:13]:
And Brian, who's going over to visit Jimmy and Alice sees him standing outside and has like this immediate, what the hell are you doing here? Get out of here, Nobody wants to see you reaction towards him. And he tries to explain, she left her wallet, I was just bringing it back. And he turns him away, tells him to leave, but then also asks him, like, kind of feels immediately bad about it and asks him how he's doing. And he says he's okay, but in a way that made him know that he wasn't okay. And he winds up speaking to him a bit. And we find out later that he continues to speak to him on and off, like checking in on him kind of. And eventually Alice finds out via Brian all of this and chooses to have that conversation with him as well, with Louis. And it's a really powerful scene where she sits down with him, she expresses anger, pain that she's been through her truth, and ultimately forgives him.
Tony Ortiz [00:22:17]:
And she's clear that she's not doing it for him, but she's doing it because that's what her mother would have done. And we see how that forgiveness gives him, Louis, this emotional release as well. And from a writing perspective, forgiveness and storytelling works really well when it's earned through a confrontation like this, not through avoidance. So it's important that we let the character say the hard things first. And this entire season with Jimmy's character and the arc that he's going through, we're kind of waiting for the shoe to drop. Like, when is he gonna realize that he's being selfish and why and start actually confronting and working through some of his pain, because he's still in avoidance mode. You know, he's not self medicating and numbing like he was before, but he is still escaping in different ways, like into his clients, so on and so forth. And Jimmy winds up realizing something huge.
Tony Ortiz [00:23:16]:
After learning how both Brian and Alice have been speaking and starting this sort of relationship with Louis, he realizes that his anger towards the drunk driver isn't just about the accident itself. It's about what the accident exposed, which was that he failed his daughter when everything fell apart. It's that he broke the last promise that he made to his wife, which was to always take care of Alice. And that realization triggers a relapse for him. But this time he has the gumption to stop himself. And he calls Paul, who's by the way, been predicting this all is lost sort of moment in Jimmy's life and the need for him to. To have it, to be able to break through to the other side and actually begin healing. And ultimately Jimmy accepts his help.
Tony Ortiz [00:24:12]:
And a writing takeaway for us there is that true character growth is self awareness followed by action. The realization alone isn't enough. The choice to implement an action is what really matters now. Everything in season two culminates in a few powerful moments that wind up being full circle emotional payoffs for us as the audience. Jimmy finally confronts Alice about letting her down and they have this big breakthrough. And she acknowledges what he's saying and agrees with most of it, while also highlighting how much he was there for her at other times as well. She didn't want him to lose sight of that. Sean winds up reconnecting with his past through his army friend George, played by Trey Santiago Hudson, which by the way, was in the John Leguizamo play the Other Americans that I saw and did a breakdown of and a previous episode.
Tony Ortiz [00:25:12]:
Please feel free to go back and check that out. That was a goodie. We also see him starting to have a better family life and able to communicate more with his father, with his mother, spend more time with his little brother, setting more positive examples. Brian and Charlie move toward building their family in all the ups and downs that they went through with the adoption process. Gabby explores this new love interest in Derek number two, played by Damon Waynes Jr. Which does a great job. And Jimmy at the end winds up rushing to stop the drunk driver, who we learn is contemplating killing himself by stepping in front of a train. And that last moment is everything.
Tony Ortiz [00:25:56]:
The man who caused his pain that made his entire life fall apart is now someone that he's trying to save. And for us as writers and aspiring writers, the full circle storytelling is everything, right? It's what we want to achieve for our readers. When a protagonist moves from victim to active agent, especially toward their former antagonist, it signals a true transformation. And Season two of Shrinking isn't about fixing everything. It's about facing what you've avoided, owning your role in the damage and choosing to do better anyway. Not perfectly, but intentionally. And as writers, that's the main lesson. That's the main takeaway.
Tony Ortiz [00:26:43]:
Healing isn't clean. Growth isn't linear. But accountability is where real character change begins. And if you enjoyed that, please check out my Season one breakdown of Shrinking and many other TV shows, books and movies in the back catalog episodes of the Spun Today Podcast. And make sure you check out shrinking season two, streaming now on Apple TV. And that, folks, was episode 300 of the Spun Today Podcast. Thank each and every one of you for taking the time to listen. I really do appreciate it.
Tony Ortiz [00:27:18]:
Please rate and review. Subscribe. It really helps to get the show out to more folks. If you want to help support the podcast, go to spun today.com check out my books, my writing, some short stories, my merch. Everything is there. Sponsored.com sponsored.com spun today.com here is a few other ways you can help support the show if you so choose. And then I'll check you guys out next time. Peace.
Tony Ortiz [00:27:46]:
What's up folks?
Speaker B [00:27:47]:
Tony here. I hope you're enjoying the Spun Today Podcast as much as I enjoy producing it for you. Here are a few ways you can help support the show. You can help support the Spun Today podcast by shopping my merch section. Go to spunterday.com support and navigate to the merch section. Here you'll find the iconic Podcast versus Anybody tee which comes in many different color schemes and all different sizes. There are a bunch of other designs available as well, including writing themed shirts, cycling shirts, and the classic Dominican Escudo and much, much more. And if T shirts aren't your thing, all designs also come in pullover hoodies, zip up hoodies, sweatshirts and tank tops.
Speaker B [00:28:31]:
You can also shop the spontane coffee mugs which has the spontane logo on one side and the tagline that I end every episode with on the other, which is start taking steps in the general direction of your dreams. Once again, for all Spun Today Merch, go to spunteray.com support and navigate to the merch section. Another great way for you to help support the show and also take care of your foundational health is by going to spunta.com support and clicking on my affiliate link for Athletic Greens aka AG1. One scoop of AG1 in your water helps to fill nutrient gaps, promote gut health, and support whole body vitality. Just one serving delivers a comprehensive blend of nine products, a multivitamin, minerals, prebiotics, probiotics, adaptogens and more, all of which work together for the strongest foundation for better health. I personally take AG1 and really appreciate the peace of mind of knowing that my foundational health bases are covered even when I know I'm not eating as healthily as I should be. Also, by using my affiliate link@spunce.com support you will get one free year of vitamin D3 as well as five AG1 travel packs absolutely for free. Again, go to spunta.com support and click on the banner for AG1.
Tony Ortiz [00:29:56]:
If you're a fellow creative, A cool way that you can help support the Spun Today Podcast and actually be part of the podcast is by filling out my five question questionnaire located@spun2date.com questionnaire. Here you'll find the five open questions related to your craft, your art, what inspires you to create, what type of unrelated hobbies you're into, and what motivates you to get your work done. You can choose to remain anonymous or plug your website and your work, and once you submit your questionnaire, I read your responses on a future episode of the Spun Today Podcast. It's completely free at no cost to you. And what I like to say about it is that if your responses could potentially spark inspiration in someone else, why
Speaker B [00:30:37]:
not share that Spun today.com questionnaire the
Tony Ortiz [00:30:43]:
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Speaker B [00:30:48]:
All you have to do is go
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to spuntoday.com subscribe and drop in your email address. What I'm gonna do is brighten up everybody's least favorite day of the week by delivering five curated things within my weekly newsletter. Every Monday at noon, you're going to receive a Photo of the Week, a
Speaker B [00:31:06]:
recommended Podcast of the Week. I listen to tons of podcasts from
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in the general direction of your dreams.
Tony Ortiz [00:32:00]:
Thanks for listening. I love you, Aiden. I love you, daddy. I love you, Grayson. I love you, daddy.